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06 October 2009

God loves abortions!

So I just came accross this article where the "right to lifers" want to define a person at conception. Now, I'm not going to get into the debate about medical abortion itself, mostly because I am a man, and probably am not the most qualified person in the world to talk about it. Also, it's a subject that has been beaten to death.

Instead, I want to point out the incredibly flawed logic that these people are using. By trying to define a person at conception, they are (by their own defenition) condemning up to 70% of all souls that ever come into existence to purgatory (or hell depending on what flavour of the 38,000 different sects of christianity they adhere to). Up to 70% you say? Yep:
It is estimated that up to half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among those women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is about 15-20%. Most miscarriages occur during the first 7 weeks of pregnancy.
Now, to a rational person, this is how evolution deals with the whole tricky process of assembling a human being. Evolutionarially it's really a way to prevent gross malformations, and an endless parade of suffering. The first up to 50% of miscarriages are caused by chromosome problems that make it impossible for the baby to develop. Usually, these problems are unrelated to the mother or father's genes. The remaining 15-20% are caused by things such as hormone problems, infection, physical problems with the mother's reproductive organs, problems with the body's immune response, or serious body-wide diseases in the mother (such as uncontrolled diabetes) . Like I quipped, assembling another human being is tricky business, and evolution has developed these neat little tricks to keep the ones that are alive and functioning from prematurely expiring too often (and then we help with our medical technology).

Of course, to the vast majority of these people, evolution doesn't exist, everything is boiled down to "goddidit". In their worldview, since evolution doesn't exist, what causes up to 70% of all souls that are created to spontaniously abort? Well? I mean, smart people know about biology, genes, chromosones, hormones, and all that sciency stuff, but these people view the world through the lens of the supernatural. Since they can't really attribute something that is naturally spontaneous, it must be supernaturally spontaneous, i.e. god(s). They may argue that another supernatural entity is responsible (satan, santa, evil spirits, whatever), but then wouldn't the supposed good entity not imbue the soul until the other ones are through with their mischief? The good one is supposely omnipotent, omnicient, and omnibenevolent. Should be an easy solution there. But then, these fundamentalists who want to take away women's reproductive rights and domain over their own bodies are going to define a person at conception, thus pre-emting their god. Or, endorsing the wholesale condemnation of souls... I wonder what the Dope (I mean Pope, transposing a p and d is so easy) would say on the subject?

I would like to point out that the rights of women is an entirelly different discussion, and Austin Cline handles that one admirably.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

1. I do not believe that by saying that human life begins at contraception that we are condemning babies to hell. Nor, do I believe that aborted babies are going to go to hell either. I believe in an age of accountability. This is not a 'if you are older than 10' kind of rule. Rather, it is individually based on knowledge and ability to understand the matter at hand.
2. Although I know you do not consider the Word of God (i.e. The Bible) truth, I do. In Psalm 139, it states that "You knitted me together in my mother's womb." So according to this, I believe that I became 'me' at this point. I was alive and active in my mother's womb; and I can assure you that she will attest to the kidney kicks. I may not remember this time, yet I do not remember a lot especially anything prior to three years of age. That does not mean I was not alive.
3. You have given no proof that abortion is a product of evolution. Natural abortion could have been there from the get-go. Where there increased full term births of these babies in earlier history? Scientific proof is needed for such claims.
4. Moreover, I do consider myself a Christian. When I say Christian I simply mean a follower of Christ. I am not free from sin or temptation. I don't get it right everyday. When I try to determine my beliefs, I turn to the Word of God and prayer. I do not choose a sect of Christianity and just believe it.
5. Currently I am a senior science major. I have taken Biology, Biochemistyr, Organic Chemistry, Anatomy and Physiology, and plus many more science courses. I do not seek the supernatural to explain things. The supernatural, as you call it, simply does. Have you ever studied how intricate our bodies are? Or nature in general? Have you ever admired the sunset or sunrise? It is absolutely amazing!
6. And who are we to decide when other people die? Is it fair to let people be irresponsible and then kill a baby because of it. You may say, "what about rape victims?" My response is simply: if I was raped and became pregnant, I would keep the child or atleast let it be adopted.
7. Finally, I am not all-knowing and therefore, these arguments may not be 100% correct. I am only telling you the way I understand the world and life.

Larian LeQuella said...

Theists... no frikkin sense of humour...

Okay, I'll bite:

1. Maybe in your flavour of xtianity. So what happens to souls who still are tainted with original sin, and never get to know jebus?

2. So? Does this mean you agree with the concept of being a person at conception as opposed to when there is brain activity?

3. First of all, this was poking fun at the people who want to define a person at conception and their poor logic. As to the spontaneous natural abortions, if you really know anything you studied in item 5, you should know that evolutionarily it's not efficient to attempt to carry to full term chromosomal mistakes that aren't viable. Anyone who actually understands or knows anything about evolution would see that. Your refusal is like saying "You didn't prove the sky was blue..."

4. WTF does that even mean? Okay, so then these conceived, yet aborted naturally by the woman's body as she menstruates, people are also not free of sin?

5. LOL? You may have memorized things in those subjects, but I am doubting your UNDERSTANDING. "The supernatural just does"? WTF? Does what? NOTHING, EVER, has been shown to be supernatural. NEVER EVER! Sure, there are things we don't understand, and people attribute that to the supernatural, but that isn't an answer, and in all of history, every single thing we ever attributed to the supernatural, was later explained in a natural way. Not once has it happened the other way round. I would contend that I have more awe and passion for all the things in the universe. I am not afraid to say "I don't know" about tough questions instead of "goddidit". Faith is not an answer, it's just not being curious enough to go looking for one.

6. Noble ideal, but I wonder how you would REALLY feel if you were actually raped and impregnated? Would you want to carry around that reminder of the horrific violation, and even be reminded for the rest of your life? I have counseled some rape victims before, and having constant reminders is the last thing they want!

7. I'm not all knowing either. First of all, all knowing is an impossibility within the confines of this universe. And fine for you to have that outlook on life. I just think it's incredibly presumptuous of your ilk to tell others how to live their lives based off your beliefs. That's really what this is about. Or would you want to worry about being labeled a potential murderer every time you menstruate after having sex?

Anonymous said...

1. I do NOT believe in christianity. I believe in God, The Word, and the Holy Spirit. I am NOT religious. I seek Truth. Are you saying you believe in original sin? Jesus is the only way to the father. He was the perfect sacrifice. God gave himself, to come humbly to the earth, to live a perfect life, to be given as the ultimate sacrifice to fulfill the law. Without coming to Jesus first and simply accepting the gift of life He offers, people are choosing hell. Note that I did not say that God condemns or sends someone to Hell; they do it themselves. God pleads with us to turn to Him and live. I do not understand everything on the subject of death at an early age. But I know Jesus is the truth.

2. I believe that I was being formed from contraception. I am glad I got a chance to live. Don't you think it is wrong to deny the possibility of life to someone else? Regardless of when brain activity actually begins, I was going to be. I mean I understand if there was something wrong with my genetic makeup or if I had been implanted outside of the uterus, nature would have corrected it with a natural abortion. But is there any reason to deny someone who can live, that opportunity? Did you know that when people lose a baby prior to birth, they mourn. They bury the child. They carry that scar with them. It's painful. So did they just lose a few cells, like hair or skin? Do you cry and mourn over the skin you lose daily? no...

3. Do you know what the term evolution means? It is change over time. I was trying to point out taht natural abortions have not developed over a period of time but were in fact present in the beginning--whenever you want to define that beginning at. So therefore, I was saying 'You didn't prove the sky green.'

4. I don not know what you are referring to in your #4. It does not correspond with my previous #4.

5. My understanding is great. I am a very educated women, with a particularly high ability to learn. And, I do not let my abilities go to waste. When I said the supernatural simply does, I meant that the supernatural simply explains thing and I do not try to make it explain things. I am not afraid to say I don't know either. I don't just say God did it. I do attempt to understand it. Saying you do not believe is a statement of faith. You are putting your trust into that fact and hoping you aren't wrong. Just like me. It is faith because we don't know the answer. I am a curious person. Please don't assume to place me in the same basket as you do other 'xtians.' I rarely simply accept what people tell me. I believe that is lazy and risky.

6. I have been through a lot in my short period of life. A Lot. Do not doubt it. I do not come from one of those perfect christian homes. And I am not one of the people will simply say 'God came in and saved me.' I have struggled with life and I have struggled with my faith. It's not easy. Deciding to follow God, isn't taking the high road and it is not easy. What I am trying to say is that I am strong. The things that I have been through prove that. Forgive me for not explaining my entire personal background over the internet. And just because an abortion rids a women of one reminder, I am sure there are plenty more. People should not run away from those things and try to avoid them. It's hard. and not having the child, isn't going to make it any less hard.

7. I am not telling you how to live your life or anyone else for that matter. I am just trying to explain what I believe. I mean are you trying to tell me how to live mine? Because I don't like that either.

Larian LeQuella said...

Did you even read the original article that this whole blog entry is about? It seems that you are totally and wholly missing the point...

1. You say you don't believe, but then you indicate you do. I guess you make 38,001 different versions then?

2. I think you missed the point since you didn't seem to have read the article.

3. Bzzzz. Wrong. Only one aspect. And just because I happen to be talking about human reproduction, doesn't mean that a similar process didn't evolve for ALL mammals. Typical backwards thinking...

4. Your original #4 didn't make a lick of sense to start with. I don't speak mumbo-jumbo gibberish.

5. The supernatural EXPLAINS NOTHING. Zip, nadda, zilch, zero. Name ONE item that the supernatural actually EXPLAINS. Every instance in all of the history of the world that was attributed to a supernatural cause is simply someone pulling it out of their ass and totally making it up. NOTHING EVER has actually been explained by the supernatural. Why is that so hard to understand? Now, people can make up shit, but that doesn't actually make it true or an actual explanation.

6. Okay. That's for you to decide for yourself. Others have different ways of living their lives. Again, are you telling them how?

7. I am only telling your ilk, as cited in the article, that A) Defining life at conception is problematic from a theological as well as moral point of view. B) They really ought o worry about their own lives instead of labeling every sexually active woman who menstruates as a murderer with what they are proposing.

Anonymous said...

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