My Actual Homepage - Go here for more info.


I plan to put a graphical banner here eventually...

Amazon Contextual Product Ads

10 August 2009

Funny Experiment

I have always contended that prayer is about as effective as pissing into the wind, and probably even less so. So, I got into it with a local theitard about how prayer is nothing more than mental masturbation making you feel as if you did something, while in effect doing nothing. I bought out the long list of how it's even been shown to have zero effect on reality. Of course, this fucktard keeps going on about this that or the other thing about how it's not god's will or whatever other thousands of rationalizations that xtians havemade up for their totally failed and impotent god.

So challenged this theitard to pray that I get what I deserve for being an atheist and not only rejecting his god, but even insulting, belitteling, and mocking his god to the best of my ability. Well, again his god is an impotent and ineffective nothing. Because I have managed to get a fantastic job. My house has only been on the market a week, and I have two buyers bidding on it. Yep, I must be getting my come uppance for thinking that all of this god shit is made up bull.

Now, don't get me wrong, I can't claim to know with certainty that there are no "beings" of immense power that somehow have an effect on the universe, yet choose not to act on it. That is within the realm of possibility. Although, as far as we can tell, they have elected not to actually DO anything, at all. Also, what is the sense in worshiping any of those type of beings? And then we get into the whole "first cause" connundrum that perplexes both rational physisicts and thologists. But I will say that every incarnation of any gods that humans have thought up, made holy books for, or said have an effect on this world have come up short in every measure. The god of the bible/quran/torrah being the most impotent of the lot!

Oh well, I guess this atheist will coninue enjoying life based on reality and controling those things based on reality that actually matter and will have an effect. I'd rather have ONE pair of hands at work than a million clasped in prayer!

DISCLAIMER: This experiment only has one datapoint, and should not in any way be construed as definitive. Although, the theitard in question seems particularly devout. Ask him about the results.

8 comments:

JD Curtis said...

So challenged this theitard to pray that I get what I deserve for being an atheist and not only rejecting his god, but even insulting, belitteling, and mocking his god to the best of my ability. Well, again his god is an impotent and ineffective nothing. Because I have managed to get a fantastic job. My house has only been on the market a week, and I have two buyers bidding on it. Yep, I must be getting my come uppance for thinking that all of this god shit is made up bull.

Assuming the theist in question is a Christian, please point me toward any example cited in the foundational documents of the Christian religion that equates God to somebody who has to do stupid pet tricks for you or anyone else?

"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward and hungred. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Matthew 4:1-10 (KJV)

Larian LeQuella said...

Yes, and he only prayed that I get what I deserve.

In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says: Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says: For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21: I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray for something tonight? It should happen. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be: "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to do something tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says: Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says: And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23: All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37: For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray for something, nothing happens.

In the Bible, in the book of 1 Kings, in chapter 18, there is a fascinating story about God and Elijah. Here God CLEARLY does stupid pet tricks. Why doesn't he do them anymore?

JD Curtis said...

And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, show thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth. 1 Kings 18:1

Did Elijah tell God to do stupid pet tricks or was Elijah acting as an intermediary, a tool if you will, to demonstrate God's existance and power for all to see? Since God clearly sent Elijah, and not the other way around, it would appear to be the latter.

Did the theist actually pray that which you asked him to? Or was this an example of the type of internet argumentation so common these days in which one party justs fades into the background, not to be heard from again?

Larian LeQuella said...

What about all the other verses that says prayers will have an effect? Or do you conveniently ignore those, or coming up with your rationalizations?

As for the theist, he told me in a message, "I will pray for you. I will pray that you get exactly what you deserve." And he was in a huff since I had called his god petty, impotent, jealous, weak, stupid, and a whole host of other names I would try not to heap on something real. But since he's totally imaginary, no harm done. ;)

Larian LeQuella said...

Oh, and what about the spontaneous burning of the sacrifice in the story? Or is that now god doing tricks? Really, don't you even know your own fables?

JD Curtis said...

What about all the other verses that says prayers will have an effect? Or do you conveniently ignore those, or coming up with your rationalizations?

Lunk, if there is some theist out there praying fervently that I swerve off the road this week and crash my car, do you think that will happen?

God does answer all prayers. Sometimes the answer is not yet. Sometimes the answer is no.

Oh, and what about the spontaneous burning of the sacrifice in the story? Or is that now god doing tricks?

We see in the exact same chapter that God sent Elijah, not the other way around.

Larian LeQuella said...

Ah, so god only does things that you could have done on your own to start with, that requires zero actual intervention or supernatural power? Sounds totally impotent and imaginary to me!

From another page: If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.

Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.

You can find many believers who will say, "The reason why scientific experiments fail to detect God is because God must remain hidden. He does not answer prayers if he knows that he will be detected."

In order to see the truth, you need to accept that this explanation is silly. If God must remain hidden, then he cannot answer any prayers. Any "answered prayer" would expose God.

The whole notion that "God" must remain "hidden" is a total cross-threading of religious doctrine. On the one hand, believers will say that "God wrote the Bible, God incarnated himself and died on the cross for us, and God answers millions of prayers on earth every day." Then in the next breath they will say, "God must remain hidden." God obviously cannot "remain hidden" and "incarnate himself." These two items are mutually exclusive. Therefore, the explanation that "God must remain hidden" is impossible. As soon as you accept how impossible it is, you can begin to see see that God is imaginary.

JD Curtis said...

So in other words, Einstein, let me see if I can follow your vastly superior logic....
A. Last night I prayed and asked God to make me a millionaire.

B. I'm not a millionaire today

C. Thus God does not exist!

Wow! Such GROUNDBREAKING materialistic theory Lunk! Do you know what this proves? Absolutely nothing.